"472CID" (472CID)
02/11/2015 at 13:02 • Filed to: None
26
100|
"472CID" (472CID)
02/11/2015 at 13:02 • Filed to: None | 26
| 100 |
There's more car companies in the supercar field than ever before, but there's still plenty of car makers who don't have one. What would the supercars from all the non-players look like? Lets go through the possibilities. Now before you jump down my throat about what is and isn't a supercar, lets say for the purpose of this post that any car that can beat a Z51 Stingray around a track is a supercar. I've included what I think the probability of each brand making a supercar, these are values that I'm pulling out of my ass.
Acura/Honda - Yes yes, the joke that the NSX is never actually coming out is great, but seriously the NSX should be here anytime... right? Probability: NSX 90%
Alfa Romeo - Alfa's had some history of exotic sports cars in it's past with the Tipo 33 and 8C. There was (is?) a rumor of a 6C, which would be a larger six cylinder equivalent of the 4C. A lengthened more powerful 4C sounds great, wounder if Fiat would let Alfa compete with Maserati or even Ferrari? Probability: 6C 40%
Aston Martin - We've already got the One-77, it's not too far of a stretch to say the Vanquish or V12 Vantage S are supercars. That mid-engined Aston that we see every now and then, probably isn't going to happen. Probability: Vanquish 100% anything else 0%
Audi - The R8 does a pretty good job of being Audi's super car. There was rumor that Audi could make a car above the R8, complete with a turbo diesel and hybrid set up, haven't heard anything about that for a while now thought. Also not counting on any Quattro type car. Probability: R8 100% anything else 30%
Bentley - We've seen a supercar concept from Bentley and they seem pretty committed to high performance cars, but with all the other supercars in VAG's profile I highly doubt it. Probability 20%
BMW - Many would consider the i8 a super car, or even the M6/M5, that's all well and good but what about a pure focused speed machine? One rumor concerns a special high performance i8 to celibrate BMW's 100th(?) anniversary. Then again we've BMW shoot down the idea of an M i8 multiple times. Probability: Something other than the i8/M5/M6 40%
Buick - Nothing in the modern sense of the word (the GSX and GNX were pretty super). It's fun to imagine a mid engine turbo V6 sportscar form the "old people" brand. Probability 0%
Bugatti - Nothing but supercars 100%
Cadillac/Chevrolet - Recently we've been treated to spy shots of what looks like a mid-engine prototype running around GM's proving grounds. Which could very possibly give credibility to the looooong rumored mid-engined Corvette. If such a thing does exist it could just as likely be a Cadillac as a Corvette, either way it would be pretty cool. Even without this car the ZR1 and new Z06 do a great job of being one of the fastest cars on the road. Probability: Corvette 100% mid-engined car 60%
Citroen - Citroen likes to tease us with fancy concepts but has never made anything sportier than a mild hot hatch. If they did make one, however, it'd probably look like this... Probability: 0%
Chrysler/Dodge - Chrysler's had dozens of sportscar concepts over the years, the most super of which was the ME4-12. Even with Fiat's backing I don't think we'll ever see any supercars out of Chrysler outside of the already super Viper. Probability: Viper 100% anything else 10%
Ferrari - Nearly everything the make could be considered a supercar 100%
Fiat - Not bloody likely, unless you consider a Italian Miata a supercar (I'm sure some do) 0%
Ford - We've already had one GT, and recently we found out we're getting another one 90%
GMC - Probably not going to happen, but a supercar fighting next gen Scylone would be amazeballs 0%
Holden - On a similar note Holden offers us (and by us I mean exclusively Australians) a 560hp truck, which is kind of an untraditional supercar, but it's on the endangered species list. 0%
Hyundai/KIA - For some reason Hyundai doesn't seem interested in a serious dedicated high performance car. We got the Genesis coupe, which is nice, but a safe attempt at making an enthusiast car. You'd think they wouldn't be more likely make one now that they have $60k sedans with 430hp V8s. Probability 25%
Infiniti - A couple years ago Infiniti showed off an electric supercar concept, and there was a rumor that it could be produced. Lately it seems as though Nissan is playing safe, so the outlook is dim 20%
Jaguar - Jaguar is like that friend who says they're too broke to go out and have any fun by refusing to produce their beautiful CX-75. At least we've got their F Type R which is pretty sweet. Probability: something other than the F Type R 30%
Jeep - The closest thing to a supercar out of Jeep has been the SRT Cherokee, will we ever get a Hellcat Cherokee? I'd say 60% chance.
Lamborghini - Nope no supercars here... 100%
Lexus - The LFA was a bold move in the supercar department, the rumor has it they'll follow it up with a 600hp coupe. 50%
Lincoln - Lincoln refuses to make a rwd car, I think a supercar is out of the question. A long low and black Lincoln coupe with a big V8 would be pretty super though 5%
Lotus - The Exige is arguably a supercar, but I still wish one of the Bahar could have been made. A new Esprit with super/turbocharged Lexus 5.0 would have been really cool. Probability: something beyond the Exige S 40%
Maserati - Maserati is no stranger to supercars with their old MC12. We're supposed to get a sportier replacement for the Gran Turismo, rumor was that it would even be mid engined with a turbo six. There hasn't been any news on the at lately, so we'll have to wait and see. Probability 70%
Mazda - The Furai was a great supercar concept, but Mazda can't even bring itself to make an RX7 (or new Mazdaspeed3 for that matter) so I don't think we can count on any supercars from them. 10%
McLaren - duh 100%
Mercedes - Mercedes seems to be on a downward trend when it comes to supercars. First we got the crazy expensive SLR, then the more reasonable SLS, and now the downright pedestrian AMG GT. An AMG GT Black Series would be a fine super car, but I still find myself wishing to see a dedicated production mid-engined Mercedes (the CLK GTR was not a dedicated supercar) Probability: AMG GT Black 90%
Mitsubishi - They can't even keep the EVO alive, much less support a higher performance coupe. As much as enthusiast would like to see a new 3000GT, it's not going to happen 0%
Nissan - Nissan's got the GTR which can beat just about any supercar so It's hard to justify anything else. Probability: 100%
Opel/Vauxhall - I can't see these brand with anything outside some rebadged Holdens or hot hatches 0%
Peugeot - Another one of those brands who likes to show off sporty concepts yet flat out refuses to make anything remotely high performance. 5%
Porsche - We've gotten several supercars from Porsche, not least of which the current 918. 100%
Renault - A couple years ago Renault's Alpine sportscar seemed like a sure thing. Lately it's looking pretty doubtful, which is unfortunate because it's nice to look at. 40%
Subaru - Subaru shows no signs of suddenly making a supercar, but it's fun to picture what one would look like. A lightweight mid-engine car with a cranked up STI drivetrain would be pretty awesome. Probability 0%
Toyota - We don't know too much about the upcoming Supra, so it's hard to gauge just how super it will be (if it comes out at all). My guess is that it will have six cylinders and a hybrid system with anywhere from 400-550hp. Probability 50%
Volkswagen - For such a big car maker with so many models it's amazing that VW doesn't really have any true sportscars. Sure there's the Sirocco and Corrado, neither of which were traditional sportscars. Many years ago VW showed us what looked like a production ready Nardo concept, and more recently we got a Ducati powered XL1. The chances that VW will actually make anything are pretty low. Probability 20%
Volvo - I don't think we'll ever see a Volvo supercar, but it would be pretty glorious if it existed. An inline six hybrid awd that looks like their recent coupe concept would be neat. 0%
Any Chinese/Indian/Etc brand - So far we haven't seen anything too ambitious with up and coming Asian brands. It would a big statement if one of these players stepped forward with a competent super car though. Probability 30%
EL_ULY
> 472CID
02/11/2015 at 13:06 |
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Volvo T8-R. If it ran the 400+hp T8 drivetrain from the upcoming XC90 T* on a light chassis, I see WIN all day!!! Bonus points for brown :] See more HERE
Boxer_4
> 472CID
02/11/2015 at 13:12 |
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Subaru was closer than you might think. They were far from the only ones working on that project, but I say it still counts.
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472CID
> EL_ULY
02/11/2015 at 13:17 |
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That's what I had in mind, only with a six cylinder and 500ish hp. That rendering looks familiar, I'm thinking it's based on one of the Audi Quattro concepts.
KnowsAboutCars
> 472CID
02/11/2015 at 13:18 |
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Well, Vauxhall did have the VXR8 which I would rather consider a sportscar than a supercar but if you include the HSV Maloo in this list I guess VXR8 can be a supercar too.
Peugeot never makes anything remotely high performance?
detltu
> 472CID
02/11/2015 at 13:20 |
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Cool idea for an article. I always like looking back at supercar concepts from different manufacturers. Didn't the Nardo also get updated as the W12 or were they the same car?
Still want to see a GT90/ Cadillac Cein/ ME412 Big 3 showdown.
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EL_ULY
> 472CID
02/11/2015 at 13:22 |
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Drive-E unit is very light. Even better, they can put the tri-turbo unit they are developing . If XC90 is another huge hit, this may be possible :]
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472CID
> KnowsAboutCars
02/11/2015 at 13:25 |
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I did make mention of Opel/Vauxhalls including rebadged Holden, which are pretty super and debatable if they fit in the context of this list.
I adore the T16, but one 200hp hatch 30 years ago does not make you a sporty brand. Even their recent GTIs put them at average at best.
JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
> 472CID
02/11/2015 at 13:27 |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oullim_Sp…
Korean, Powered by a TT Hyundai DELTA V6
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472CID
> detltu
02/11/2015 at 13:29 |
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There's a fair chance we'll see a Ford GT vs. GM mid-engine which would be a nice start.
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472CID
> Boxer_4
02/11/2015 at 13:31 |
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I forgot (or maybe never knew in the first place) that that had a Subaru engine in it.
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472CID
> JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
02/11/2015 at 13:32 |
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That's not really a Hyundai though. It'd be like considering the Hennessey Venom a Chevy.
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JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
> 472CID
02/11/2015 at 13:39 |
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Point taken, though I think a more accurate comparison would be: "like calling a Noble M400/Rossion Q1 a Ford" Since the Hennessey is really a Lotus/Chevy, and the Spirra is at least a unique chassis, even if it DOES use almost 100% Hyundai running gear.
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detltu
> 472CID
02/11/2015 at 13:40 |
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Agreed. I will be pretty happy just getting Z06 (ZR-1 fingers crossed) vs. GT vs. Viper battles going again. Good times.
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Boxer_4
02/11/2015 at 13:52 |
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Interesting.
Mid-engined boxers are problematic for having a rear-transaxle and front diff connected together. V-engines like Audi/Lamborghini can make it work, due to a V-engine not being so low, and in the way. You can't put a driveshaft through the crank-case.
An alternative, though might be to reverse-mount the engine, dry-sump, and really low in the chassis, like a lambo V12, transaxle under the interior, sending an output shaft forward to the front diff, and another output shaft above the crank-case, under the intake manifold, to a rear diff situated among, or just aft of the engine's accessory belt drive on the aft end. With modern large-diameter wheels, it might not be much higher than the wheel-centers anyway.
Another thing I have wondered about in the past... with the advent of direct injection, and dry intake manifolds... an up-flow cylinder head arrangement. Intake manifold tubes under the engine, exhaust out the top, where the heat naturally rises anyway. Easier to put a good skid-plate under the low-mounted engine if the exhaust is above the engine.
Kind of half-way between a Ferrari Berlinetta Boxer or TR/512, and the AWD layout that Lamborghini Diablo, Murcielago, and Aventador use.
And for true super-car status... if they de-stroked and de-bored their EZ36 flat-6 to ~3.3 Liters. (leave enough cylinder wall for o-ring head gaskets and a semi-closed-deck) adding another pair of pistons for a flat-8 would be 4.4 liters. (doubling an FA20DIT engine would be ~4.0 Liters)... then twin-turbocharge that beast...
Subaru would never, ever do that... but it would be awesome to see it.
Especially if it were a bit gritty and rally-ready with a bit more ride height, and meaty tires, like the Giugiaro Parcour X-GT concept.
pip bip - choose Corrour
> JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
02/12/2015 at 02:45 |
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also available 4.6 Ford V8
JimSlade
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:27 |
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That ME4-12 is still one of the best looking concepts of recent times. They can make that today, many years beyond it's debut, and it would sell.
Awesome as the first day I saw it at the NAIAS.
Kookanoodles
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:29 |
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To be fair most of these brands have absolutely no reason at all to make a supercar. Also, I don't see what you mean about Alpine.
Scallootch
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:29 |
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Here's me still hoping the Yamaha OX99-11 rises from the dead.
Maxxuman
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:30 |
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90% for Ford? I think you robbed them 10%.
GhostZ
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:31 |
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I'm a bit surprised that the 8C or TZ3 isn't in production anymore. Jeez.
NinjaViper
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:32 |
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I think you meant "VW: Refer to the Veyron".
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Maxxuman
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:33 |
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Aston Martin really should build Samir Sadikhov 's DBC though
Mercedes Streeter
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:34 |
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Smart would bring back the Roadster BRABUS V6 Bi-Turbo. But with moar powwwwwerrrr, and a Manual transmission.
volvomoose
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:36 |
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Really? SAAB doesn't qualify for this list?
Vin
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:36 |
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SAAB will return ! With a jet turbine to justify the whole Born from Jets™ dealio.
sadfasdf
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:36 |
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5% is also lincoln's chance of making cars at all long-term.
lolworthy
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:37 |
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you missed out mg
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focus3
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:39 |
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Isn't the Hunadieres (that was the name of this car right, after Lemans?) essentially a Veyron?
E5P3ED
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:40 |
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There was (is?) a rumor of a 4C, which would be a larger six cylinder equivalent of the 4C.
o_O
The Devil Drives a Mustang (Rotary Pending)
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:46 |
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For Chrysler, let's also remember them teasing us with the Firepower:
Basically, a V8 Viper with a nicer suspension and a nicer interior. Think turning the Viper into a Mercedes-Benz SL competitor. That showed promise and maybe they will revisit the idea one year, but I doubt it.
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weapons
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:46 |
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Quite a lot of brands missing from this list, no?
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SLOCUSFOCUS
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:46 |
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I'm still unreasonably bitter that the ME412 never happened.
I know I'm not alone.
CRider
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:46 |
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A Bentley supercar would weigh 4,500 lbs, cost $600k, have a engine that could be out of a VW or a Bugatti and be designed to carry two sets of golf clubs.
off constantly
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:48 |
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will buy
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472CID
> Kookanoodles
02/12/2015 at 17:48 |
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Well of course nobody needs a supercar, but it's interesting that most of these guys have at least toyed with the idea at some point.
If I remember right, there was a Renault-Alpine-Caterham effort to make a sports car, this sports car:
but it fell apart a couple years ago. Recently we got that cool yellow race car pictured up there, so I don't know what Renault may do.
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Gene Lewis
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:49 |
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Few things. One, I've heard from a family friend who owns a Lincoln dealership that he was flown out to Vegas to see the new mkc and "a mustang based Lincoln". Idk if he was completely bullshitting me, but with all ford has released recently, it really wouldn't surprise me. second, volvos twin charged 4 cyl hybrid driveline with potential for polestar tuning bring Volvo into supercaresque territory.
DoglegFirst
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/12/2015 at 17:49 |
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The V12 AWD Jaguar XJ220 concept has AWD routed through the crankcase
jacknifetoaswan
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:50 |
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Time will tell, but I honestly believe that the GT will not be the ONLY supercar that Ford is producing, in the near future. I think that Mustang GT350R is going to throw down some ridiculous lap times, and who knows, the Focus RS might just be up there, too.
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Blakkar
> focus3
02/12/2015 at 17:51 |
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Before there was Veyron. Yes., certainly on paper.
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DoglegFirst
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:53 |
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My hope is that if a mid-engined Corvette happens, Dodge will respond with a mid-engined Viper. The chances are miniscule, but I won't stop hoping
B/Xmrrmvr
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:53 |
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Based on the reception the GenCoupe received and based on the opinions of the majority of Jalopnik, it's not surprising why Hyundai wouldn't make a supercar.
LittleMonster
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/12/2015 at 17:54 |
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"You can't put a driveshaft through the crank-case." I thought at least one of the Lamborghinis did exactly that. Or all of the mid-engined models. The transmission is at the front of the engine, with a driveshaft running through the crank-case to the rear wheels. Or maybe it just runs through the sump...
It's bugging me: I feel like I remember reading that somewhere, but I can't confirm...
evoCS
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 17:56 |
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IF only Mitsubishi of today remembered early '90's Mitsubishi. Some of their HSR concepts were fucking awesome.
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472CID
> weapons
02/12/2015 at 18:05 |
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As far living brands? not really. Smart, Scion, Rolls Royce, Dacia, Seat, Skoda, everything else would fall into that catchall entry. A Rolls supercar would be interesting (and pretty far fetched), and goofballs at Jalopnik would love the idea of a Skoda supercar.
Lancia is barely alive but would have an awesome supercar
detailer4u
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:06 |
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This list looks like a ..... to me!
ShibbyUTman
> The Devil Drives a Mustang (Rotary Pending)
02/12/2015 at 18:06 |
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Hellcat all the things!
M.L. Lapid
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:08 |
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-> Well, Philippines has a bit of glimmer of hope other than building Jeepneys and such:
Factor Aurelio
^ There are 2 models to choose from:
-> This yellow one is powered by a Honda B16A VTEC 2WD:
-> And this orange one is powered by a Mitsubishi 4G63 Turbo AWD:
^ Sure it's still in a prototype stages. But its still better than waiting for the next S2000, S16 Silvia, MR-2, Code 130R, AWD Eclipse, Evo, Celica, etc.
Pessimippopotamus
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:09 |
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Cadillac Cien take two suddenly seems more probably with the rumors of mid-engined Corvette spreading like wildfire.
Dr_Watson
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:11 |
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the weird face on the back of this concept still freaks me out
DavidHH
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:11 |
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Be glad that every automaker does not make a super car, and that super car prices stay in the millions. One of the rich A$$ Hole$ on the top of pill hill drives his AWD Porsche at 50 MPH in a 20 MPH zone of a Hospital, on a regular basis. The clown with the Tesla AWD doing 0 to 60 times, some of which were in residential areas, which was covered on Kinja recently. Do you really want the trouble caused by wealthy idiots who can't drive safely to increase by 1000%?
Pastor of Muppets
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:12 |
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I've always wanted a car that would make people double-take to figure out whether or not I'm driving backwards
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Blakkar
> GhostZ
02/12/2015 at 18:14 |
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I thought the TZ3 was a one-off. The 8C? Because I can't afford one I'm not inclined too much to care, but if it was a Maserati or Ferrari, it would still be in production.
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GhostZ
> Blakkar
02/12/2015 at 18:16 |
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I was thinking of the TZ3 Stradale, which has a few production examples, not just a one-off.
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Pastor of Muppets
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:16 |
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What're you lookin' at?
My Kids Have Four...Wheels (And Paws)
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:16 |
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Title flatters to deceive. It's not a "what if", it's "what was once rumored and then either produced or killed".
Blodřrn
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:17 |
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The Renault-Caterham deal fell apart but the Alpine version of this project is still going to happen.
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DownTheLiffeyOnADonut
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:18 |
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I'd actually put money on Kia/Hyundai doing something at some point; just to show they can.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> DoglegFirst
02/12/2015 at 18:19 |
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The prop shaft may have gone "through" the crank case casting... but in a functional sense it was integrated along-side the engine. It cannot physically occupy the same space as the crankshaft, or the connecting rods, pistons, or cylinder heads.
A V-engine, including a V12, is shaped like a V, with the crankshaft at the bottom of the V, and sending the prop-shaft along side the crankshaft, even through an integrated tube, is not interfering.
Even front-engined cars that have AWD added to RWD drivetrains, like Mercedes, BMW X-drive, and Infiniti/Nissan's ATESSA based system, and even front-engined Porsches like Cayenne and Panamera, the front differential is along-side the engine, under the V, slightly below the crankshaft, and outputs an off-side axle shaft through the oil sump, under the crankshaft's occupied space, which necessitates the mounting height of the engine, relative to the axle line. Otherwise the differential axle output is situated among the accessory drive system in front of the engine block. There isn't much of an option to employ an axle shaft above a V or Inline engine's height. Ferrari FF even employs a second transaxle on the front of the V12's crankshaft, in combination with the traditional RWD transmission on the aft end of the crankshaft, in order to drive the front wheels, as well as the rear wheels.
A Boxer engine is FLAT, and the cylinders extend horizontally from the crankshaft. If the engine is low in the chassis, for the benefit of the center of gravity of the car, the cylinder walls are directly lateral from the crankshaft, and the drivetrain prop shaft cannot occupy that space.
The prop shaft has to be in-line with the drivetrain, and usually the drivetrain has to be in-line with the crankshaft.... so it doesn't typically jive well, and sending the prop shaft under a boxer engine means that the boxer engine has to be mounted higher than it otherwise would be, otherwise the prop-shaft has to be situated above the crank-case, as I suggested above. It can't be placed laterally to either side of the crankshaft the way it can be with a V-engine.
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davedave1111
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:22 |
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Fiat do make supercars. You listed them just above Fiat.
jsemerica
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:23 |
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I'm definitely bias, but I believe Mazda could make an amazing supercar. A naturally aspirated 4-rotor based on the RENESIS' refinements that's mounted mid-engined and looked a fraction as good as this would compete with the GT-R.
I don't think Mazda has the hybrid technology yet to compensate for a smaller engine, but their I-eloop system is clever and would probably help with MPGs.
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472CID
> My Kids Have Four...Wheels (And Paws)
02/12/2015 at 18:30 |
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Yes and no, I was trying to think of what a supercar from each company would look like, but kinda focused the pessimistic likelihood of each car.
What's cool is most of these brands had a supercar/sportcar concept or rendering at some point, and so we'd have an idea of what they'd look like. In a more perfect world I upload a sketch of what I think each car company would produce.
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Kookanoodles
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:34 |
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That's not the whole story, and the Alpine sports car is still a thing (to be released in 2016).
The one you're talking about was the A110-50, and it was never intended for production. It was put together from the chassis and engine of a Mégane Trophy V6 racer :
with a body heavily inspired by the Dezir concept :
The goal was simply to test public enthusiasm for the brand. AFTER the concept made its big impression, they sold 50% of Alpine to Caterham in order to make a car together (that would have nothing in common with the A110-50) to be released in 2015. But Renault wanted more time to change the design, so the partnership eventually fell through, but Renault bought back their 50% and are still going ahead with the project. Alpine has a proper CEO and design team, and they communicate often (in French media at least). It's pretty safe to assume that it'll be RWD and mid-engined (most likely a turbocharged 4 cylinder).
In the meantime they're making us wait with the A450b (really just an Oreca 03) LMP2 car that just entered the WEC after winning two ELMS titles :
And this rather gorgeous virtual car for Gran Turismo 6 :
EDIT: Oh and that cool yellow thing you were talking about is the Renault Sport RS 01 and it's what will be replacing the Mégane Trophy V6 I mentionned in the beginning in the World Series by Renault.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> LittleMonster
02/12/2015 at 18:34 |
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Lamborghini V12 cars, specifically Diablo, Murcielago, and Aventador, with AWD have the transmission and center differential 'transfer case' under the center of the car, with the V12 "backwards" in the chassis. The flywheel, clutch(es), and gearbox point toward the front end, and the accessory drive is on the aft-end, in the back of the engine bay.
The output prop shaft from the center differential to the rear differential is routed along side the engine. Even if the assembly is integrally cast into the engine block, it is along-side the crankshaft, and underneath one of the banks of the V-shape of the engine.
As I mentioned, that is not condusive with a boxer engine, where the cylinders, connecting rods, and pistons are directly horizontal from the crankshaft.
The prop shaft would have to go under the block, necessitating the flat, low boxer engine be mounted higher than necessary, defeating one of the advantages of a flat engine compared to a V or Inline engine, the low center of gravity, or otherwise, it would have to go OVER the engine, which is possible, but might impact interior volume, and would necessarily place the rear axle line behind a mid-engine-situated boxer, for the axle shaft suspension articulation behind the engine block.
It is easier for a boxer engine with an aft-transaxle to be 2WD, like a Boxster or Cayman. For AWD, it is easier for a boxer engine to be rear-mounted behind the rear axle line, between the rear wheels, with the transaxle pointing forward toward the front differential.
Boxsters and Caymans are RWD for that reason, while 911 models can easily add AWD, in addition to RWD. An AWD 911 is basically the same as a reversed Audi Quattro, or Subaru symmetrical AWD layout.
NoahTheFerrariGuy
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:39 |
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Unfortunately the NSX already looks outdated and it hasn't even come out yet.
FadedGlory
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
02/12/2015 at 18:39 |
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472CID
> Kookanoodles
02/12/2015 at 18:46 |
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That's quite a complicated story for a casual observer. I just hope we get a pretty new French sports car, which you're suggesting is on it's way, so cool.
coco-bun
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 18:47 |
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Isuzu - Como concept
IT'S A DAMN MID ENGINE V12 PICK UP WITH GULLWING DOORS!
Oh and the engine? You know, just a 3.5L V12 (P799WE) developed for F1.
http://www.isuzu.co.jp/museum/conhis/…
http://www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/c…
TheHondaBro
> CRider
02/12/2015 at 18:48 |
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Oh shit, two golf clubs?
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Ad_absurdum_per_aspera
> Pessimippopotamus
02/12/2015 at 18:58 |
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Has anybody brought up Tesla in this context? Plainly they can make at least the powertrain of a car with eye-watering performance; if they choose to revisit the idea of the Tesla Roadster, but with the sort of driveline they proved they can make now with the P85D...
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CRider
> TheHondaBro
02/12/2015 at 18:58 |
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One for you and your concubine.
Tribesman2004
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 19:02 |
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That's... a pretty open idea for a super car. Most people think of most Ferraris as sports cars, and leave the Super car title to things like the Enzo and LaFerrari.
AP1M
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 19:10 |
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R.I.P Furaaiaiaiai
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detailer4u
> KnowsAboutCars
02/12/2015 at 19:31 |
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Nope .................
Eightycc
> 472CID
02/12/2015 at 19:31 |
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that Bentley though...
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JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
> pip bip - choo |